Allow me to make an assertion: breast cancer survival is not
influenced by surgical excision of the primary tumour. This goes against the prevailing
wisdom that cancer is cured by removing it, but that kind of thinking is
simplistic and at odds with much of the evidence. Lets walk through that evidence.
There is a theory that breast cancer is a systemic, rather than a local disease, and that local control
(by surgery) does not influence the course of the disease regarding its ability
to cause death. The common thinking about breast cancer is that it starts in
the breast and spreads such that if you remove it early, and completely, you
can be cured. This is the basis of breast cancer screening, but as I have discussed
before, there is debate about whether screening reduces one’s risk of dying.
Note that I am referring to overall or all cause
mortality, rather than disease-specific
mortality. For more on the important
difference between these, see my blog on how
you die versus if you die.
The counter argument to the prevailing wisdom is that breast
cancer comes in different grades: low grade cancers that are unlikely to se
death (with or without surgery) and high grade cancers are likely to have
spread before they are even diagnosed, and are likely to cause death with or
without surgery.
If survival after breast cancer is influenced by local
excision (surgery), then the following statements should be true:
1. “The wider the margin, the better the cure rate”
We already know the folly of the "more-is-better" radical mastectomy (see my previous post). These days, the arguments are about much smaller ‘margins’ (how close to the tumour is to
the surface of the excised lump) and usually refer to local recurrence, where the
prevailing wisdom is that wider margins make local recurrence less likely.
Avoiding local recurrence is desirable, but it is a different thing to
all-cause mortality (overall survival). But even if you are talking about local
recurrence, it appears that margins of 10mm, 5mm, 3, 2, and even down to 1mm
all have similar recurrence rates (discussion
here). Regarding excision of the associated (axillary) lymph nodes, overall
survival is not improved by excising the lymph nodes when they are not involved
(no cancer found in them). Other studies (here
and here) show that even
when patients have cancer in the lymph nodes, excising the axillary lymph nodes
does not improve overall survival (but it does result in more complications). Interestingly,
in both these studies the survival was a little better in patients who did not have the cancerous lymph nodes
excised. Therefore, the statement above cannot be supported.
2. “Incomplete excision will adversely affect survival”
Similar to the case with cancerous lymph nodes, having a complete
excision of the tumour or leaving some behind makes no difference to the
overall survival (here,
here, and here). And
although the measurement of margins is not all that exact, it does
appear that they are an accurate measure of the amount of tumour left behind (here). Therefore,
the statement above cannot be supported.
3. “Other forms of local control will influence survival”
Twenty-year follow up of lumpectomy alone versus lumpectomy with
radiotherapy showed no difference in overall survival (here).
In fact, having radiotherapy did lower the chance of dying from breast cancer,
but this was offset by a corresponding increase in the chance of dying from
other causes. This review
from 2003 noted that: “There is strong
evidence that the omission of postoperative radiotherapy to the breast
following breast conservation surgery has no impact on overall survival.”
And this
Cochrane review of radiotherapy for low grade breast cancer (DCIS) showed
no difference in overall survival with radiotherapy. Again, the statement
cannot be supported.
4. “Non-operative treatment will have a higher mortality
rate than surgical excision”
Unfortunately, there is no randomised comparative study to
report, but there are some interesting studies out there, like this one, that estimated
that most breast cancers, including invasive cancers, would regress if left
alone.
In older patients (over 74), non-operative treatment has
been tried, and most patients die with
their breast cancer than of their
breast cancer (here).
This study
looked at patients that refused surgery for their breast cancer. 41% were still
alive after 5 years, compared to 61% in a similar group who had surgery. The
two groups being compared, however, were not otherwise equal. For example,
patients who refused surgery, had almost no other treatment (apart from Tamoxifen),
whereas at least half of the “similar group” who had surgery, also had other
treatments such as radiotherapy and chemotherapy. Also, most people who refused
surgery did so because they thought they were too sick to withstand the surgery
or because of other health problems, so I could make an argument that the
background mortality for this group would be higher than the “similar group”
who thought they were well enough for surgery. There may be other factors in
this non-randomised study that explain the (surprisingly small) difference in
survival; people who refuse surgery might do other things that are not good for
their health (like not taking their heart pills, for example). The figure below
is taken from this study. It does not convince me that surgery was responsible
for the difference between the two lines on the graph.
The bottom line
The argument for overall survival being influenced by local (surgical)
excision of breast cancer is not strongly supported. For most of the comparisons provided above,
although there was no difference in overall survival between the treatment
groups, those with more local treatment (like having complete margins or adding
radiotherapy) had less local recurrence. This means that local treatment, like
surgery, does something (it provides
local control), but that “something” may not extend to reducing the risk of death.
Hi Dr Skepitc
ReplyDeleteInteresting and brave assessment. No doubts your research will cause alot of controversy if seen by a bigger audience. Thanks for the insight.
Warm Regards
Dr Post
"if seen by a bigger audience"? I am offended. This has been picked up widely in the Twitterverse and had strong numbers here on the blog.
DeleteI had the same thought, but interestingly no one with a counter-argument so far.
What is strongly supported by good scientific data is that "local (surgical) excision of breast cancer" increases total mortality, primarily because the invasive intervention leads to a significantly increased risk of secondary cancers, many of which are metastatic (discussed in "The Mammogram Myth" by Rolf Hefti). Local treatment does something very specific: more damage.
ReplyDeleteThanks. I am aware of the theory that surgical handling of the tumour amy increase the risk of metastasis, and of the theory that removing the primary tumour reduces the drive on the body's immunity to fight the cancer, therefore increasing cancer growth elsewhere. But like alternative theories that support tumour removal, they require supporting evidence that tumour removal causes harm (beyond the direct harm of the surgery).
DeleteAs many readers know, I am less concerned with biological explanations, and more concerned with clinical evidence to support or refute hypotheses. My question is simply: does removing the primary tumour lead to a reduction in the risk of dying over the following 5 - 10 years? You argue that removing the tumour may increase that risk, but I am not aware of any evidence that supports that contention, just as I am not convinced by the evidence that it reduces the risk.
Mechanical view dominates the thinking of patients and, unfortunately, most doctors, and the idea of meaningful outcome is difficult to get across to both. Once, when I questioned the value of coronary stents a colleague of mine exclaimed: "So what, if you get an MI you're going to refuse a stent?" When I said that probably yes, as there is no evidence a stent would make me live longer he turned to other doctors in the tea room and declared that I am mad. The rest of the room seemed to agree with him.
ReplyDeleteThe question of benefits of removing small breast cancer once came up in a conversation with another friend of mine, a GP. Her argument for removal was that "it is a bad thing that should not be there, so it should be removed". Emotional response is stronger than thinking in probabilities.
Good article. I hope to see more of our colleagues thinking critically.
Thanks for your support and I agree with you. You are highlighting the fact that it is easier just to go along with things than to question them, and the simplistic thinking about cancers. This is why it is hard to treat prostate cancer non-operatively. It is hard to sleep knowing the cancer is inside you; as you say, emotion trumps logic every time.
Delete"It is hard to sleep knowing the cancer is inside you"
DeleteOr perhaps from two and a half years ago: http://doctorskeptic.blogspot.com.au/2012/07/prostatectomy-doctors-just-dont-get-it.html :
""People with prostate cancer usually decide to have a prostatectomy, because people sleep better at night knowing that the cancer has been removed”
This is a comment from a urologist. My response to that is that they would sleep even better, literally (from less incontinence) and metaphorically, if they were never diagnosed in the first place."
Chris O'Neill
Agree. Doctors play on this fact. Diagnose it, at any cost, then you have control.
DeleteI am looking forward to the Preventing Overdiagnosis conference in Oxford next month - might give me a few more ideas.
ReplyDeleteMy name is Mrs Marian am from Philippine.I have been suffering hardship from Breast Cancer since 7yrs now, and i happen to have 2 kids for my husband, and now we cannot proceed to have another kids all because of my disease and now i have do all what a human like i and my husband can do just to get my disease healed, i have went to several places to seek for help not even one person could ever help, until i melt a comment on the daily news paper that was commented by Desmond about how this powerful traditional doctor help him get cured of the disease (Breast Cancer) " my fellow beloved" i firstly taught having a help from a spiritual traditional healer was a wrong idea, but i think of these, will i continue to stress on these disease all day when i have someone to help me save my life?" so i gather all my faiths and put in all interest to contact him through his Email address at drehohospiritualtemple@gmail.com , so after i have mailed him of helping get my disease cured, he respond to me fast as possible that i should not be afraid, that he is a truthful and powerful doctor which i firstly claimed him to be. So after all set has been done, he promise me that i will be healed but on a condition that i provide him some items and obeyed all his oracle said. I did all by accepting his oracles fact and only to see that after some weeks of taking his herbal medicine i notice some changes in my body system and i went for check up the day he ask me to go for check up to confirm if the sickness was still there,to my greatest surprise i could not find any sickness in my body i was first shocked and later arise to be the happiest woman on earth after i have concluded my final test on the hospital by my doctor that i am now Breast Cancer- Negative. My papers for check are with me and now i am happy and glad for his miraculous help and power.With these i must tell everyone who might seek for any help, either for Breast Cancer cure or much more to contact him now at these following email now,Email: drehohospiritualtemple@gmail.com or call +2347058747764" sir thank you so much for your immediate cure of my disease, i must say a big thanks for curing my disease, i owe you in return. Thanks and be blessed sir.
Mrs Marian
I did not mark this comment as spam in order to make a point, but first I need to make another point.
DeleteFirstly, I advise against contacting this, or any other traditional doctor about this, or any other condition.
My main point is that I spend a lot of time looking for biases and flaws in the scientific support of traditional medicine, and this may create an impression that medicine, or the science behind it, is fundamentally flawed - that it is wrong. This is not the case.
I fully support the scientific method, and medicine's foundation in science. It is the proper use of the scientific method that has guided improvements in treatments over time - it has told us what works and what doesn't.
My argument is not against science, it is for a more rigorous use of science. Sloppy methods, and the inability of readers to properly appraise those methods is the problem, and my contention is that this 'problem' produces a biased assessment that overestimates the net benefit of modern medicine.
Hi,
ReplyDeleteFirst off, I came across your site and wanted to say thanks for providing a great cancer resource to the community.
I thought you might find this useful infographic interesting, as it shows the detailed effects of chemotherapy in an interactive format: http://www.healthline.com/health/cancer/effects-on-body
Naturally, I’d be delighted if you share this embeddable graphic on http://doctorskeptic.blogspot.com/2014/01/does-removing-breast-cancer-affect.html , and/or share it on social. Either way, keep up the great work !
All the best,
Nicole Lascurain | Assistant Marketing Manager
p: 415-281-3100 | e: nicole.lascurain@healthline.com
Healthline
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